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Universal Basic Income: Sam Harris, Ben Shapiro, Elon Musk and Jordan Peterson
Universal Basic Income: Sam Harris, Ben Shapiro, Elon Musk and Jordan Peterson
Universal basic income is a potential solution to address mass unemployment caused by automation and provide individuals with the financial support necessary to pursue more fulfilling and meaningful endeavors.
Universal basic income is a potential solution to address mass unemployment caused by automation and provide individuals with the financial support necessary to pursue more fulfilling and meaningful endeavors.
Universal basic income is necessary to address mass unemployment caused by robots taking over jobs and ensure that unemployed people are globally paid in a scarcity-free society.
Mass unemployment caused by robots taking over jobs will require a universal basic income to address the social challenge and ensure that unemployed people are paid globally.
Universal basic income is necessary when technology eliminates the need for human labor and creates a scarcity-free society.
Universal basic income may not be necessary when most people are employed, as there will always be a need for human labor, but jobs involving single tasks are more likely to be replaced by technology.
There will always be a need for human labor, especially in creative jobs, but jobs that involve single tasks are more likely to be replaced by technology.
Universal basic income may not be necessary when the majority of people are employed and it could potentially create a lack of incentive to work.
Retirement may not be fulfilling for everyone, as people often find value in being productive and contributing through work, and universal basic income is discussed as a potential solution to job loss due to automation.
Retirement may not be fulfilling for everyone, as people often find value in being productive and contributing through work, and it may be difficult to fill the time with hobbies and classes.
Universal basic income is discussed in relation to the potential loss of jobs due to automation, particularly in the case of truck drivers, and its potential benefits for society.
Universal Basic Income is seen as the greatest opportunity in human history to eliminate dangerous and repetitive work and allow people to pursue more interesting and creative endeavors, but its success depends on addressing concerns about extraordinary wealth, political will, and cultural attitudes towards handouts and taxes.
Wealth inequality will lead to social unrest, but universal basic income is not the ultimate solution as the problem of job displacement goes beyond just money.
Wealth inequality will become unsustainable as the richest individuals will eventually realize the need to distribute their wealth to avoid social unrest.
Universal basic income is not a solution to the fundamental problem and mirrors the issue of rights and responsibility.
The fundamental problem of people being replaced by intelligent machines and lacking viable means of making a living is not solely due to a lack of money.
Lack of purpose and support network can lead to trouble, as seen in the example of a client who became addicted to drugs and wasted all his money.
Having enough money can sometimes lead to trouble, as seen in the example of a client who became addicted to drugs and wasted all his money.
The problem was that he lacked purpose and a support network, causing him to fall out of the world.
People need more than just money to find meaning and satisfaction in life, and society should support the development of purpose to avoid negative consequences.
Money alone is not enough, people need a purpose in life to find meaning and satisfaction, and society should foster the development of that purpose.
Having all the money you want without any responsibility may seem appealing, but in reality, it can lead to isolation and negative consequences.
People find meaning in life through adopting responsibilities, so providing money without any responsibility is not a good vision and universal income is the wrong solution.
Key insights
💰 "I think ultimately we will have to have some kind of universal basic income...I think it's gonna be necessary."
💰 "It's a very clear definitive test of whether or not you're valuable if somebody gives you money and you get that money you like look I'm valuable. I'm doing something I'm contributing."
😬 The implementation of Universal Basic Income could be problematic if it leads to extraordinary wealth inequality that we lack the political or ethical will to address.
🏰 "You can't have multiple trillionaires walking around living in compounds with razor wire and just moving everywhere by private jet and then massive levels of unemployment in a society like ours."
🌍 Universal basic income does not address the fundamental problem and is a mirror of the rights responsibility problem, as everyone may have a right to the basics of life, but it doesn't solve the underlying issues.
🤔 The root of the problem may not always be the lack of money, but rather underlying issues such as addiction or personal struggles that need to be addressed.
💰 "Money without purpose is not helpful, what people need is a purpose and that's what gives their life meaning."
🤔 "You don't want no responsibility...people find the meaning in their life by adopting responsibilities."
More I think of this, more I realize how difficult this problem really is. Elon Musk is right I believe, this is a problem we need to solve, before it becomes a serious threat to society. Sam Harris correctly finds that people will accept inequality only up to a certain point, unless we introduce feudalism again. Current implementations of basic income were a flop more or less, as far as I know failed experiments. We definitely don't need to implement it now, since unemployment is really not a problem yet, but we need to figure it out. Simply giving money is not enough, we also need a purpose and responsibility as Jordan points out.
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It's pretty interesting listening to this in 2020 while millions of people are unemployed, many I'm sure are struggling with finding meaning in their life without their normal routine.
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Dr Peterson’s POV is actually reassuring, as usual. The human element is that we need to have a purpose.
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I love it when people with a ton of money talk about how people don't need money, they need purpose. And then arrogantly think that working a shitty low paying job should be their purpose.
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"The computer industry didn't destroy jobs when typewriters went out" Well, the computers in the present day aren't yet advanced enough to replace all the jobs that only a human can do, but that doesn't mean there will never be such a day, especially when the jobs that only a human can do better are getting lesser and lesser.
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I think that before we reach a point where there are less jobs than there are people, we're gonna reach a point where all the jobs require a higher level of competence than there are qualified people. I think a big problem right now and coming soon is that we need to raise everyone's average intelligence somehow
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The world is full of things to learn and contribute too. People will participate when they feel secure and given a real opportunity.
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Jordan makes the most sense. Even though he may not have a solution he knows more clearly what questions we should be asking ourselves to arrive at one.
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I think Ben was ignoring the fact that the automation of these jobs is being severely held back BECAUSE of its threat to the job markets. Without that downside we could easily put a lot more resources into our technology and science department and get this easy labor automized. It would free up so much time if we could actually work together to do this. Automation of jobs should be a miracle, not a problem.
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The last guy is kinda both right and wrong in my opinion. Sure we need purpose in our life, but a universal basic income would create the economic stability for people to chase their dreams, their purpose.
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People are the meaning of life, Elon. Family, obviously. This urge to work, work, work, is a survival tactic, not true meaning. Elon scratches both those itches in his work. Truly blessed dude. Some people just derive far more joy from the work and success than from other people. Some people mix and match, some devote themselves to community and family. Jobs are a means to and end, and we should always remember that.
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I think granting basic income AND responsibility and purpose is the way to go
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UBI would be a great idea only if it replaces all other benefits to eliminate bureaucracy. Give everyone, from the homeless to the rich, the same UBI. But get rid of unemployment, food stamps, subsidized housing, child benefits, etc, etc. Imagine how much expense, waste and fraud there is within all these government agencies. UBI would save a fortune. Even social security could be rolled into UBI. Then eliminate all personal taxation and property tax and only have sales/consumption tax on non-essential items. Once 99% of pointless government is gone, how much taxation would even be needed?
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The biggest hurdle to overcome will be the shame and humiliation any moral person will feel being disgraced with these payments. For most people, their American dream is not a check; it's a job. That way they can live by the sweat of their own brow and are beholden to no one. No one desires to be reduced to property, but UBI can lead to nothing else.
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It's about being able to provide/produce something of value to another human being. It's about creation. And there should be programs to make sure everyone gets on track towards achieving this, but UBI doesn't seem like the solution. The risk of having a mass of people with no self-worth too lazy to get ahead is too great. Sometimes suffering is what drives you forward.
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The thing about a UBI is that it should be very difficult to live off of for any amount of time. All this would do is just help out families that are already working, maybe even help them leave one parent at home.
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Paying people who have no purpose but to wait for a check, will be devastating to those same people.
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Jordan’s answer to this was far and away the best and most reasonable and thoughtful. UBI’s central premise puts far too much weight on the value of money.
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Elon is one of the best billionaires ever born. Wise words on “meaning.” This is going to very, very tricky. Shapiro is right as well in the sense that it’s going to be very difficult for some people to actualize with very little work to do. I’m 26, and I strongly believe I’ll see this day come. Not really looking forward to it
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The no.1 one thing, people don't get, when they ask how to pay for universal basic income, is that when a human labor is replaced by a machine or AI, the value is still created, while the machine does not need to be payed. So the employee could now keep paying the replaced worker, even if he was just sitting on a couch eating chips all day.
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I love how everyone is strawmaning Ben's entirely reasonable stance on why universal income won't work even with automation on the rise, but going against Elon Musk is like heresy nowadays.
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Elon is on point, looking ahead and preventing instead of the usual "only change when it goed horribly wrong"
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It would be nice if society recognized being a friend as a meaningful purpose of one's life.
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I think it's interesting and helpful in a supplementive way. Perhaps people in low paying jobs just work less hours, spreading out the working income amongst high school, college, and graduate students. In a broader perspective, if the basic income is high enough and goods and services are cheap enough, you can live to do what you want, be it starting a video channel online, streaming, working, traveling, maybe taking job up to be able to travel or learn a new skill, instead of working to pay for a vacation or school on top of your necessities. This would also replace social security and welfare. The elderly would not have to worry about whether their retirement package/savings will last them for their final 20-30 years, they still have that income slowly their savings drain. For poor people on welfare, if they are single with roommates, or a family of adults living together, they can pool their basic income to pay for their bills and not have to worry so much. And if someone wants to move out, they have that option to get a job and make the difference up without worrying about getting kicked out of their current home for not making enough.
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It's not like you give people enough to be happy, you give em enough to not starve.
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In my anecdotal experience the only problem with being unemployed was not having enough money to pursue interests. I'm wondering what he's ever had to do without, with an attitude like that.
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Really enjoy the compilation of different perspectives on the topic 10/10
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I agree with a lot of what Ben S says but the true underemployed/ unemployment rate is way way higher than 4%
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As long as there are people willing to get paid to do nothing there are always people willing to pay for people to do nothing.
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"Man doesn't live by bread alone." True, but he dies without it. Can't find much meaning in life if you starve to death.
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I think the solution is to change education programs. We’ve been learning the same thing, the same way for decades and the world changed on us and we’re still doing a lot of things the old way. i think we need to re-engineer society in a way that will have people keep up with how fast the world is changing.
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Imagine the humanity reaching closer and closer to being a Type 1 civilization and laughing at Ben Shapiro's views on what Science and Technology can and cannot achieve.
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Peterson hits a lot of points.. and the deeper meaning of people losing purpose and responsibility. But I think $1000 per month was no accident. Yang knows thats damn near perfect of an amount to keep people on their feet but also just enough so they can think.. “hey what else can I do?”
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I think what a lot of against people missed about the idea of universal basic income is that it is meant to be designed so that everyone will have a safety net. What its not meant to do is to give somebody a luxurious retirement. At least what I'm envisioning is there should be the right value of basic income (or way of income) which is just enough to relieve a lot of people's daily expenses. That would definitely be a challenge but if done right the idea is not as bad as these social "experts" are claiming to be.
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I absolutely love how Elon Musk and Jordan Peterson come to the exact same conclusion in completely different ways. That is just incredible and fascinating.
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I like how the gentleman with a lot of money says money is not what people need. Lol.
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Musk is legit a Genius. Not only among tech but with people.
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"UBI means all young people will be lazy." What about the teen who wants to be an engineer who is forced to work at the age of 16 to help his/her family make ends meet?
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What bothers me about their takes is their assumption that UBI would provide enough income for them to do absolutely nothing, become complacent, and then simply die of boredom. Realistically, I think, if something like that were to be put in place, it would only be enough to HELP. Not enough to pay your way through life. You might get the stress of paying rent lifted off your shoulders. Or maybe your student loans. Perhaps it would allow you to work a part time job and not have to work yourself miserable. I just feel like they're looking at the notion with a narrow, unrealistic view. What ever happened to the tests they did in Scandinavia? How did that go? Did all of them die of a heroin overdose?
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Ben and Elon are saying the same thing. Ben says we don't need Universal Basic Income YET. Elon is saying we will need it in the near future.
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No UBI because of that one guy that got hooked on drugs! Alright, argument made!
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The reason for UBI that I don't hear discussed enough is the fact that we've allowed the distribution of profits from capitalism to go exceedingly to people who don't spend the money but instead invest it. That's fine in some situations but the fact is today that our ability to spend has been decimated by school and medical debt as well as flat pay for 30-40 years. UBI is a way of taking that money from people that shouldn't have had it in the first place and distribute it to the people to whom it rightfully belonged in the first place.
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If you do not push Universal Basic Income expect an overturning of all people in power especially if average people start asking one simple question “why do you get to have everything?”
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Thank you for compiling these diverse view points.
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The problem is no one is responsible with their money, not the top 1% nor the bottom 10%. We cant blindly advocate one side or the other, we have to understand that the true answer lies somewhere in between.
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peterson makes some good points.. though i think it's more of a two-sided issue. People need purpose but they also need the opportunity to act out that purpose. if it were up to me, i would turn the education systems into more than just a learning arena. But also turn it into a place where teachers actually help facilitate what you are passionate about and what jobs can facilitate the greatest amount of purpose and fulfillment for you as an individual. in addition, UBI can help those who come out of college to start their own businesses and join companies that inspire them out of the gate, without much risk of complete failure or settling for a job you don't enjoy out of desperation of survival.
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as an east coast professional, almost all my friends worry about their jobs being replaced in their lifetime.
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Even if I didn't think UBI would work I'd still be in favor of giving it a try. Societies should attempt to find ways to improve.
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Great compilation. Good work. Not always got time for 3 hours on Joe Rogan etc !
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"Do you really think you'd be satisfied if you had money without responsibility?" ... Yes. If work didn't control what I had to do with myself I'd take my considerable skills at programming to build whatever the fuck I wanted, or I'd spend time educating myself to learn to build new interesting things that I hadn't previously known how to build. What stops me from doing that is being exhausted all the time from the process of commuting in, working, commuting home and then having to do chores while already exhausted. Some people aren't self starters or aren't self motivated. They'd have a hard time of it. But yeah, let me loose.
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I like how this video had all different approaches to the subject instead of one telling you the watcher the right answer.
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Jordan Peterson hit the nail on the head when he said that money isn't the problem and that people need purpose and responsibility. I've been sitting here in lockdown for the past 4 months with more disposable income than when I'm at work, yet with nothing to do and nowhere to go, the money's just sitting in my bank account doing nothing and bringing me no joy whatsoever. So yeah, money honestly isn't the issue.
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I cant believe the support im seeing for yang! Ive been talking ubi in my economic classes for years and no one thought you could get people on board for it... yet here we are!
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Elon Musk also talked finding the meaning aspect. Jordan Peterson did the same, just explained more deeply. He was not fundamentally against UBI. It is also a point to consider. No need to criticize Peterson for no reason.
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The problem with these guys saying we have to learn to use the right side of our brain is that they assume everyone is capable of being as smart as they are. That’s just not the case. That’s like Shaq on a debate stage telling everyone that they need to learn how to become professional basketball players at 5’7” ️
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A person cannot find meaning from their job if their job no longer exists. Society needs to recognize that jobs, the thing a person does for money, and meaning are already separate.
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The problem isn’t jobs. The problem is the need for money to survive.
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Here's the problem with meaning. We say we are worried about people not having meaning because they don't have a job to full fill them. We've been programming people for generations to be ok with not working and having just enough to live. We've been programming people to be ok with the very least for no output.
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As low skilled labor becomes automated, there will likely be an increase in other highly trained jobs. Before a need for universal basic income there will be a need for universal free college tuition to provide the necessary training for more highly skilled labor.
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I think what Peterson is trying to say is that even if all your NEEDS are fulfilled, and to take it a step further all your WANTS fulfilled, you aren't going to solve what he sees as the major problem in society. The problem he talks about so much is loneliness and people having no meaning in their lives. I don't think he agrees or disagrees with UBI, he's just not a man to talk too much on a subject that he doesn't fully understand. Which let's not kid ourselves no one can understand what's going to happen in the future with automation and UBI. No need for everyone to get so hostile over it. The world is ALWAYS ending. It wasn't his best answer, but it was a very Jordan Peterson answer.
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JP and Elon are on point here, Ben Shapiro is right too, but I think he underestimates how quickly things will change. Yang2020
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Every job lost to a robot creates 3 jobs: 1 mechanic to fix the robot, 1 software developer to code the robot's software, and 1 customer service rep to handle sales and service requests.
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I think it's pretty obvious what people would do if there was universal basic income. People would spend more time on hobbies and family. Maybe people's hobbies could become pseudo-jobs or jobs outright as some already have such as fitness, art, crafts, vlogging. Sure some people would become degenerates but those people already exist and I don't think more people would join them. Basically what I'm saying is that people would find their own meaning, and they'd be entirely free to. It could even be productive for humanity.
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What I dislike about Ben Shapiro is that he always ridicules any idea that he disagrees with.
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"96% of people are working"..."But everybody is on disability and nobody are working" -Ben Shapiro
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Jordan peterson said "you'll have all the money you need, what are you going to do?". I don't think anyone thinks $12,000 a year is all the money they need.
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If everyone lived their life like Rogan, UBI would be awesome. It's too bad people can't seem to motivate themselves...
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If we can actually make UBI possible let’s make it happen. However there must still be a reward for those who decide to be more than couch potatoes. UBI is more for those who just can’t really make it work. If it isn’t possible then let’s stick to what we have.
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Well, there are so many people on this planet ( I am not saying all) - that go to job solely for the income. To say that they won't have meaning without this jobs is such an exaggeration. They will still have families, relatives, friends, hobbies and they can find tons of things that makes them helpful.
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“You really think you could sit on a beach drinking margaritas everyday” - well, no but it sure would be nice to do once in a while.
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Maybe providing money without purpose doesn't help. But not providing money without purpose doesn't help either
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I think hospitality services will become more and more necessary the more money you give people to just have at disposal, remember this would be in addition to what you earn at your job, some of us would just throw this money in their savings and spend more on vacations and what not. You can't replace those types of jobs with robots
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Machines have been displacing labor throughout human history and it’s usually been net good. Being in software development every day I get less and less concerned about machines destroying the jobs market. Coding is sometimes hard, sometimes boring, and often times thrilling; coding languages are getting easier as the years roll on, and eventually coding could be the layman’s job.
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Companies are more likely just going to adjust their prices for a guaranteed income. For example, General Motors may just take into account a universal basic income of their customer and set the price with that in mind; completely defeating the purpose.
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I think a lot of people aren't realizing the dangers that JP are pointing out regarding UBI. He's trying to drive home the argument that money you receive that was not earned could lead to a complete breakdown in people's abilities to value themselves, further leading to destructive behavior. We see this kind of thing even whilst people are earning a living, where the money earned is used for self destructive purposes.
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Jordan peterson the best as always
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Nobody is going to quit their job to live on $12k a year...
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I am confused about the "people get meaning from working." Why do I feel like that is just so fundamentally broken? Are our lives so narrow that the only way people (men in particular) gain meaning from life is by working? That seems fucked up. I feel like the UBI needs to be addressed but also the issue of meaning needs to be looked at. I love my job, but if I could never work another day in my life and do what I want, I would be happy. I would pursue the silly things that make me smile and derive happiness from those things. It's sad that people kill themselves when they lose their job, automation aside, that is really fundamentally sad and fucked up.
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I guess more people would be invested in creation and entertainment. Sounds like an endless weekend yet we’d still probably have to be very educated in order to be able to improve and fix problems our machines can’t.
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Jordan peterson is right. There will always be jobs to do
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"What will people do with there days if they don't have to drive around a truck for 12 hours?" This idea that most jobs are fulfilling is bollocks. Most people aren't getting any kind of pride or sense of meaning from their job, they're doing it to make money.
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Universal income, virtual reality, and video games.. here we come.
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I always liked Ben Shapiro but it's starting to seem he doesn't think about the people who rely on normal labor jobs
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Either i missed something or Jordan Peterson doesnt understand that UBI is not built or intended to be used to completley negate responsibility
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There is merit to both sides. There is probably work we can't imagine today, that will fill jobs in the future, but it is also naive to think we are going to be able to smoothly transition to those things. There could be entire generations not able to make the switch to the new methods of employment, and that economic jolt = devastation.
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singapore currently is one of the most technologically advanced countries to this date yet they have no minimum wage and have almost no unemployment as this country advances technologically I think it would be wise to acknowledge how singapore has dealt with the automation of their industries before claiming universal basic income as the only solution.
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I don't think I could get behind this movement unless we were to cap all social programs at that number for all citizens. Really the cost of this would just be inflation though. Especially the way that Wang wants it to be paid for.
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